Does anyone know how many Missiles/Rockets Hezbollah has fired into Israel to date?
The last count I saw was 2200 but that was earlier in the week.
Kind of blunts that whole “dispraportionate response” thing, huh?
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Well, given that the second jet full of laser guided bombs (not small missiles) is on its way from the US to Israel via Scotland, I’d say Hezbollah need to step up the pace a bit.
Actually, I don’t think anything of the sort. One set of terrorists is getting armed by the Iranians, another by the Americans. And they both need to stop targeting civilians.
Dropping 23 tons of explosives on a single house, persistent use of illegal US-made Flechette missiles in civilian areas, continuing to order tons of uranium-tipped bunker busters despite the testimony of countless independent medical professionals in the region that chemical weaponry is being used; that’s somewhat excessive don’t you think?
If you’re a blind supporter of Israel then probably not as you’ll be used to their unceasing war crimes, human rights abuses, excessive use of disproportionate force, and genocidal behavior towards the Palestinians by now.
‘Disproportionate’, unlike US weaponry, is a comparative adjective and requires relevant context in order to justify its use so quoting figures of the number of rockets fired by Hezb into Israel without stating the ‘disproportionately’ greater number of weapons fired on Lebanon and Palestine during this period is either maliciously misleading or plain naive on your part. I suspect and hope that in this case it’s the latter, why else would anybody post such a thread given the current atrocities Israel is undertaking with US support in the Middle East?
Actually Diar, I believe that all things considered, Israel is holding back. They’ve got the much larger war capability. If they wanted to, and they have every right to, they could level Lebanon and walk in and just take it. They’re a sovereign nation, attacked by a “recognized political faction” of a neighboring nation (Hezbollah makes up one third of Lebanon’s Parlimet). In any other scenario except where Israel is concerned, that would be considered an outright act of war. A stupid act of war, but an act of war.
But no. Not in this case. Israel’s involved so the regular rules of the game must be suspended so that they lose.
Why is that? Why does the rest of the world insist that Israel lose? Why do they have to be the ones to show restraint when the terrorists attacking them never do?
It baffles me.
If Hezbollah is indeed a “recognized political faction”, why then do you refer to them as “the terrorists?”
At least you are consistent in your argument regarding the current conflict in Lebanon. You begin each time with a stark generalization or an attempt to associate Hezbollah actions with a snippet of bad press Israel has been receiving (in this case disproportionate use of force) and conclude with something resembling “yeah but the terrorists are bad and Israel’s good so so what if they’re kicking ass? It’s about time too”.
For once I agreed with something Tony Blair said in his speech today in Los Angeles when he spoke of encouraging “moderate Islam” to stand up against “reactionary Islam”. It was a good start and a shame that he went on to recount numerous lies and manipulative tales to bolster support for the next stage in the US/UK’s joint venture in the Middle East against Iran.
You have to ask the question how do you extend the values of moderation by pursuing war, as in Iraq, which in itself increases the level of extremism in response? But ultimately I think the argument was the right one. How can we call people terrorists when we support Israel in its use of illegal weapons, when we sit back and watch as three quarters of a million Palestinians are plunged into darkness for months on end after Israeli airstrikes on their power station and when we ship them weapons that are illegal by international law when we know that the Israeli airforce is indescriminately bombing civilians in the hope that a handful of Hezbollah are taken out by some of the flying debris.
58 Israelis, the majoritary military personel, have officially been reported as killed during this conflict. The number of Lebanese killed is approaching a thousand, the vast majority of whom are civilians. The entire country is in ruins. Those people didn’t do anything just as I didn’t attack Iraq and wouldn’t want to be held responsible for it. Israel’s targetting these innocent people as a means of indirectly striking their true enemy is as sick as walking into a market place with an explosive belt strapped to your waist.
You show me where Hezbollah has shown any restraint whatsoever in their attacks on Israel. You show me where Hezbollah has shown any regard for the civlian population that they’re hiding behind.
Your pissed because Israel is better at protecting their civilian population than Hezbollah is at protecting the Lebanese?
Yes, I feel Israel is good and Hezbollah is bad. I know, very ignorant and common. Silly me, I still feel there’s right and wrong in the world.
Moral relativity is for analysts and lawyers. Can’t much stand either of those professions.
“Moral relativity is for analysts and lawyers”
Or indeed for people trying to backfill reasons why invading Iraq was legal. Israel is the number one prime example in the world of one rule for one and another for the rest. If any other country in the Middle East (or anywhere else for that matter) had murdered that many innocent civilians in a neighbouring country, there´d be UN resolutions by order of the white house and 100,000 tons of aircraft carrier there in 48 hours. But it´s Israel, and there´s votes and guilt there, so let´s just, ummm, look the other way.
Pathetic. They´re committing war crimes and you´re aiding and abetting.
Al, remove your head from the hole in the ground. Have you ever been to the middle east? Have you ever even served in the military(seeing a guy in uniform from a distance does’nt count)??
DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION THAT HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN TO YOU BY THE BBC NEWS???
Yeah, Israel should be cut off and forced to buy cheaper, less-accurate Chinese and Russian ordnance that everyone else on the planet uses. That should mitigate the collateral damage. Cut off the money train, too; let’s see that Old Testament action that ensues when there’s nothing for Israel to lose.
I guess suicide-belt warfare has to be fought with suicide belts, or else it’s just not fair, like war typically is. No lead pipes allowed, though: “countless doctors” have testified that breathing pulverized lead dust in a bus full of intentionally-targeted, shredded civilians after a detonation can harm you.
Blondie, I was born in the Middle East, spent much of my childhood in the region and have worked in Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Libya and Lebanon amongst other places. I speak fluent arabic and whilst I now live in Western Europe (France for those of you who care to have a dig), I feel I have a fairly broad understanding of Middle Eastern culture and politics.
I think it’s perfectly natural for those with military ties, be they family or servicemen and women, to support military action and to argue that war cannot be waged on ‘fair’ terms, yet I also believe that comments such as Timmer’s “moral relativity is for analysts and lawyers… can’t much stand either of those professions” can only have a detrimental effect on the debate. This struggle, which is principally part of a bigger picture of the Arab world’s struggle to secure their own resources, end the mistreatment of the Palestinian people and ultimately dismantle the House of Saud against the backdrop of the West’s desperate need to pursue economic interests in the region, encompasses a superficial and extremely dangerous religious divide which clouds this vast conflict of interests. It is essential for the establishment and maintenance of the legitimacy of any campaign that the invading force (in this case Israel, in the case of Iraq, the UK-UK et al) adhere to international and intra-state law.
You are under no obligation to care about arabs and I don’t expect you to begin valuing a muslim life as equal to that of a christian or jew as you appear a long way away from that state of mind but to argue that the destruction of an entire nation is not worthy of analysis let alone the application of international law is to reduce onesself to the baseness of a terrorist.
Diarmid..unless your Al by another name, I WAS NOT TALKING TO YOU, but since you decided to open your mouth……I am not your average american…(here comes a shocker) I raised in europe for the bulk of my childhood. To date two of the countrys I have lived in and loved have been attacked by terrorists,to devestating effect, so I am less then sympathetic to terrorist, and lawyers and the countrys that harbor these murders, I admire Israel for taking the stance that it did, they did’nt want to be screwed with and they are not rolling over and taking it.
It’s not that I don’t value Arab lives, I just don’t value terrorist lives.
It absolutely sucks that civilians are caught in the middle of this.
Yes, I defend Israel because very simply put, they’re the country being attacked by Hezbollah. Hezbollah started this fight and I refuse to feel sorry for them or for the country that allowed them to once again flourish. I realize that it’s not Lebanon’s fault that they’re weak and ineffective but it’s not Israel’s either.
What war crimes? Hezbollah has and continues to lob rockets into Israel. What exactly do you two BBC reading, Al Jazeerah watching yahoos think Israel should do? Invite them in for tea?
Just noticed that last comment; I was on holiday last week and am still catching up. Diarmid is certainly not me – his grammar is better for a start
I have, however, been to a few countries in the Middle East (in Britain, civilians go abroad too – and without guns!) and the fact of the matter is that Israel is an occupying power which, had it stuck to the terms and borders under which it was established, would have my full and unqualified support. But it didn’t and therefore doesn’t, simple as that, and your blinkered support for it is symptomatic of exactly why the problem isn’t getting resolved (and, indeed, why countries like mine and yours do get attacked).
As for serving in the military, I’ve never worn a uniform but can assure you that I am at least as qualified to comment on the situation as you – the BBC is the last place I need to get information. And as for Al Jazeera, I don’t watch Fox News so why watch the other side’s equivalent?